Jordan Graduates? - step3man

[ArchivalUser]

To rmd:
I appreciate your effort to give this thorough and valid account. On the other hand I apologize it brought up some painful memories.

There are some instances that I assisted to do a bone marrow a physician form Jordan . He didn't tell me his medical background. The hospital has a physician directory. He graduated from American Medical University from Beirut, lebanon. Finished his residency and fellowship in England in internal medicine . Got a fellowship in Oncology in Scotland. Came to US for fellowship.
There is no mention that he did his residency here in the US. He has an American diplomate in internal Medicine though. How did that happen may be you know better than I do about fellowship stuff.
Anyway he went back to Jordan after he got his american diplomate in internal medicine. I heard from the another supervisor in the lab that he established a business in jordan.Came back her because he was bankrupt.He has been in this hospital for years. He has been visiting Amman Jordan every summer .He is outspoken and proud of his daughter who finished medical school here and a practicing cardiologist.
You have a good reason to stay here ...rmd. It is time for you to be rewarded.

[ArchivalUser]

to soso1919- I thought you got match for 2005. I'm not the best person to answer
your question but i will try.

My advise is inquire personally to university hospitals. Go to human resource services
and tell them exactly what you want. Get the information you need regarding the visa restriction and how far you can go with a visa issue. Ask for the authorized person in that area. If it didn't work out don't be disheartened. Keep on trying some alternatives until you get what you want. Remember be flexible... if there is something else think for a moment when you need to compromise.

[ArchivalUser]

olympus600,

The problem is the fact that there is so much bureaucracy in Jordan. It is Just so difficult to get through. Everybody is angry and everybody knows everything. It is impossible to even have a productive discussion. In some instances surgeons are so proud to the point of danger. I know someone who had unnecessary Whipple. The pt ended up dieing 3 days later from biliary sepsis. The surgeon was a general surgeon without pancreatico-hepatobilliary training. Even in this country not every surgeon is able to do Whipple unless they are in a transplant center or in a place where hepatobiliary surgery is being done all the time. Trauma is a disaster in Jordan almost there is no such a thing called C , T & L spine precautions. The problem is that, doctors truly believe that Jordan is one of the best places in the region when it comes to medicine. In my opinion except for cardiology and cardiothoracic surgery, medicine in Jordan SUCKS!. Therefore you would wonder what kind of training you are going to get in Jordan at least in surgery. Many surgical trainees in Jordan say that they do a lot of procedure as compare to the west. This is absolutely not true as even in the weakest program in this country grads end up doing a 1000+ supervised procedures. Plaese note, that supervision in Jordan just stinks and infact is considered a negative thing. In short if you get into a University program here you will get good training no mater what. I strongly advise you to shoot for a University program, especially it sounds that you had significant research experience, hopefully you have published some. Please DO NOT! DO NOT ! get fouled by what people say, especially some Jordanian grads ( not all ), in most cases it is not true . I have seen both side, and let me tell you that the difference is just great. You will get far better training in this country. It will be very demanding and hard but you can do it. In my transplant fellowship I have done 770 + major abdominal transplant/ pancreatico-hepatobilliary procedures. I was on "home "calls almost every other night and every other week end. It was difficult even for me despite the fact that I already have been trained in surgical oncology. Most trainees in Jordan ( expert for medicine) do not know ICU /critical care at all. Most even do not know how to place a central line .....Anyway lots a lots could be said here.

I am saying the above so that hopefully will convince you to consider getting trained here. Finish and go from there ... Just a piece of advise and sorry if invaded your personal matters. Just thought that I will tell the Truth
Good Luck to you.

[ArchivalUser]

I find myself obligated also to support rmd opinion, I am Jordan graduates, I am still proud of myself that i pulled thru the Jordanian environment... no matter what anybody say here or convience anybody else that this is not the case, I still carry the bad memories from my medical school. in Jordan u really feel so stupid no matter how clever u are , they will always find a way to intimedate you, that even if u want to be a better person you just can, unless u really don't care.
Jordan graduates are strong because we work hard,t we do very well in the US as all other FMG it is our saver.
100% support for rmd, at least in the part that it is better for you to stay here... do something with ur life other that going back to JOrdan NOW.

[ArchivalUser]

To step3man and To All:

Did not quiet understand what do you mean by

""... no matter what anybody say here or convince anybody else that this is not the case""

My previous messages perhaps were too harsh with respect to my opinion about practicing medicine/ training in Jordan. The realty is; Jordan may work for some. It Happens to be not a working place for me. Originally I was hoping to go to Jordan to help some people by bringing in a live long worth of career experience / connections and to improve health care for the poor as well as for the rich, teaching young surgeons/ Med students what I have learned in different places. Very soon I came to realize that Jordan is not for me! ..as; a) the pay just is too small support my self and my financial obligations and so forth..... , especially I categorically refuse to agree with some of the financial practices that are being done by some physician and hospitals in Jordan.. b) it was very difficult for me to comprehend the medical culture and the sense of self pride in Jordan ...c) I did not grow up in Jordan and have no family and what so ever.

It is interesting that you (step3man) brought up the painful memories at the med school of Jordan. I have heard many other physicians (Jordanian grads back in the UK stating the same). As for my personal experience when I was inquiring about a Job application at the Med School in Amman....it is not even worth going through .... It was just ridiculous and sadly.. even funny.

I firmly believe that, If you happen to be here, just take advantage of the educational resource.,The resources here are much much more than most places on face of the earth. Try to be the best physician you could possibly be. In this county YOU have all needed tools to be an excellent physician. Learn evidence based medicine rather than the test book type of learning (real life is not a multiple choice questions). Learn how to conduct research, a trail...etc and how to make a sense of them and finally how to apply them on your patients. Read a lot and try to have a thorough understanding of every patient. Simply be up beat and do the kind of medicine that you love. Take a good care of your patients. If you do that you your patient/ colleagues will like and you will do well in your residency as well as in your practice.

[ArchivalUser]

to rmd
I apologize for the late reply to your message.

Bureaucracy is truly frustating. A total unfairness. Everybody has something to say and nobody tends to listen. Eveybody wants to be a master and nobody wants to serve. My experience here working in the US is remarkably different. The hardest job for a manager and supervisor is to tell coworkers what to do and not to do. For some they ended up doing the job themselves. Of course there are policies and rules. The job is easy but dealing with each personality is a challenge. I've been learning the art and skills to convince people to do their job best. Communication is the bridge to most confusion and disorder.

I really like my job right now. Decent salary and i enjoy it. I also have spare time for my family. In my job they understand the family issue and i have that leniency to my schedule so it will fit my needs. Do only thing that bothers me all the time is my medical career is an unfinished business if i will not to put it into practice.

I'm so grateful that you lavished your message with details . Truly you gave me a good idea how the system works in Jordan at least in medical field, what's wrong with the system and and if is there a way to improve it. I don't know.

Your massage is not in vain. I'll try to get something first here in the US. While doing that ,get some facts from Jordan. May be I'll send my daughter there by herself, so she will
get in touch with her roots. Sometime if I will think about it I will loose a lot if I wil settle in Jordan. I have a daughter who is amazingly bright. But being bright is not enough , she needs to learn life... what is really its all about.

Thanks

[ArchivalUser]

rmd - I mean your message is not in vain. Sorry for the spelling error. I always get in trouble for being in a hurry all the time. I think anybody who will notice this error will have a bolus of laughter.